WP:CFD/T

See Wikipedia:Categories for deletion policies for the official rules of this page, and how to do cleanup.

Deletion of a category may mean that the articles and images in it are directly put in its parent category, or that another subdivision of the parent category is made. If they are already members of more suitable categories, it may also mean that they become a member of one category less.

How to use this page

Know if the category you are looking at needs deleting (or to be created). If it is a "red link" and has no articles or subcategories, then it is already deleted (more likely, it was never really created in the first place), and does not need to be listed here.
Read and understand Wikipedia:Categorization before using this page. Nominate categories that violate policies here, or are misspelled, mis-capitalized, redundant/need to be merged, not NPOV, small without potential for growth, or are generally bad ideas. (See also Wikipedia:Naming conventions and Wikipedia:Manual of Style.)
Please read the Wikipedia:Categorization of people policy if nominating or voting on a people-related category.
Unless the category to be deleted is non-controversial – vandalism or a duplicate, for example – please do not depopulate the category (remove the tags from articles) before the community has made a decision.
Add {{cfd}} to the category page for deletion. (If you are recommending that the category be renamed, you may also add a note giving the suggested new name.) This will add a message to it, and also put the page you are nominating into Category:Categories for deletion. It's important to do this to help alert people who are watching or browsing the category.
1. Alternately, use the rename template like this: {{cfr|newname}}
2. If you are concerned with a stub category, make sure to inform the WikiProject Stub sorting
Add new deletion candidates under the appropriate day near the top of this page.
1. Alternatively, if the category is a candidate for speedy renaming (see Wikipedia:Category renaming), add it to the speedy category at the bottom.
Make sure you add a colon (:) in the link to the category being listed, like [[:Category:Foo]]. This makes the category link a hard link which can be seen on the page (and avoids putting this page into the category you are nominating).
Sign any listing or vote you make by typing ~~~~ after your text.
Link both categories to delete and categories to merge into. Failure to do this will delay consideration of your suggestion.

Special notes

Some categories may be listed in Category:Categories for deletion but accidently not listed here.

Discussion for Today

This page is transcluded from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024_August_4

August 4

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Former subpostmasters

Propose deleting Category:Former subpostmasters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization of just two people on a non-defining intersection of characteristics. Wikipedia does not use the category system to segregate people by their "former" vs. "current" status within the same occupation -- we would categorize former subpostmasters and current subpostmasters in the same place, not in separate categories for the question of whether they were still in that job right now or not -- but there is no Category:Subpostmasters to move these two people to, and with only two people here I can't justify moving this either. Bearcat (talk) 16:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Religious leaders from the Roman Kingdom

Propose merging Category:Religious leaders from the Roman Kingdom to Category:People from the Roman Kingdom
Propose merging Category:Religious leaders from the Roman Republic to Category:People from the Roman Republic

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory each. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:50, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early religion by century

Propose deleting Category:27th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:26th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:23rd century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:18th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:19th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:16th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)
Propose deleting Category:15th century BC in religion‎ (1 C)

Nominator's rationale: delete, redundant category layer for this early period, the categories only contain a people subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:18, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:History of the Khwarazmian Empire

Propose merging Category:History of the Khwarazmian Empire to Category:Khwarazmian Empire

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:49, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dutch people of the Eighty Years' War (Spanish Empire)

Propose renaming Category:Dutch people of the Eighty Years' War (Spanish Empire) to Category:???

Nominator's rationale: From the category description this is supposed to be for Dutch people who served the Spanish Empire during the Eight Years War. The current name doesn't convey that's the relationship.

I don't have a good rename suggestion, but I think the current version is confusing. Mason (talk) 22:40, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that it is a confusing title. Suggestion: ~~Category:Pro-Spanish Dutch people of the Eighty Years' War~~ or ~~Category:Pro-Spanish people from the Netherlands of the Eighty Years' War~~, the latter because the term "Dutch" may not include Frisian or Flemish people. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is missing here is the fact that it concerns military personnel. It is not just about opinions but on which side people fight. So technically it should become Category:Military personnel from the Netherlands in the Spanish army during the Eighty Years' War. But this is incredibly long and it is also unlike any other category. So I start wondering if we shouldn't merge this category and its sibling to the parent categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:51, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Does Marcocapelle's suggestion work?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 03:33, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smasongarrison: any further thoughts? Marcocapelle (talk) 14:06, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Racially motivated violence against Europeans

Propose renaming:

Category:Racially motivated violence against white Europeans to Category:Racially motivated violence against white people in Europe

Category:Racially motivated violence against black Europeans to Category:Racially motivated violence against black people in Europe

Nominator's rationale: The first of these categories formerly included violence against white colonialists in Asia or the Americas, which isn't really comparable to anti-white attacks in Europe. I felt that (following the example of Category:Racially motivated violence against white people in Africa that it was more appropriate to subcategorize by location of the attacks, rather than by the origin of the victims.

In addition, these categories already seems to be subcategories of Category:Racially motivated violence in Europe, strengthening the case that they ought to be subcategories by location. GCarty (talk) 07:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support in spirit, but instead of white people/black people. It should be Category:Racially motivated violence in CONTINENT against people of African descent to make it clearer that the location and descent are easier to distinguish. Mason (talk) 14:36, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smasongarrison: then how would you rename the first category? Category:Racially motivated violence in Europe against people of European descent? That sounds a bit odd. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That would be the logic. I agree that it sounds odd, but hasn't the norm been to move away from White and Black people as names for categories? Mason (talk) 21:44, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think that "black" and "white" need to be avoided in combination with "racially motivated violence". Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:00, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Rename target?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 03:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Racially motivated violence against white people in Africa

Propose deleting Category:Racially motivated violence against white people in Africa (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Most of these articles are about anti-colonial or anti-settler violence. They cannot and should not be conflated with racially motivated violence in other contexts. User:Namiba 16:32, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, while this might be a reason to rename the category I can't see why we would delete the category on this ground. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:59, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because the category does not apply.--User:Namiba 12:07, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It does apply as white people coincides here with settlers and their descendants. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:29, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Calling it racially motivated violence is mostly unproven. They could also be electricians but we would not call it trade motivated violence.--User:Namiba 12:11, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree. Many articles here are about white people in South Africa and Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. The connection with skin colour is pretty obvious. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not all violence against whites in southern Africa is racially motivated. Projecting that on to an event is very problematic.--User:Namiba 12:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 03:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:16, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Armenian buildings in Azerbaijan

Propose deleting Category:Armenian buildings in Azerbaijan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:NPOV, this resembles Category:Buildings and structures in the Republic of Artsakh that was just deleted. Note that three articles are in Category:Armenian Apostolic churches in Azerbaijan which is not a problematic category because it refers to denomination rather than to country/nationality. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:52, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~. I created this following Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_October_2#Architecture_by_country, where there was consensus to change from "Fooian architecture" to "Architecture in Foo"; the main focus of that discussion was whether to allow (and how to name) categories like this, where there were significant numbers of cases of diaspora architecture other than Colonial architecture. This one has a larger sibling Category:Armenian buildings in Turkey, and both of them have see-also links to/from each other and Category:Architecture in Armenia. Deleting it would be detrimental to the encyclopedia as Togh's Melikian Palace would be removed from Armenia-related architecture categories, although it would remain within Culture of Armenia. – Fayenatic London 13:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: the contents have nw been restructured into 2 subcats for churches and monasteries, with only the palace article held directly in the category. – Fayenatic London 07:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Armenian buildings and structures in Azerbaijan to include Armenian cemetery in Julfa. – Fayenatic London 07:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If kept, I support the rename per WP:C2C. After renaming, We Are Our Mountains may be moved from Category:Culture of Armenia to this category too. But I am still not sure whether the category should be kept because how would we objectively define a building to have a different nationality? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I see support for a rename if kept, but no consensus on whether it should be kept.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 03:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Games by genre

Propose renaming Category:Games by genre to Category:Games by theme
Propose renaming Category:Board games by genre to Category:Board games by theme
Propose renaming Category:Role-playing games by genre to Category:Role-playing games by theme

Nominator's rationale: The categories for non-electronic games only consider "genres" as games by a certain topic and not by their mechanics or structure, unlike the video games by genre category. Perhaps we could rename all these categories to be analogous with the video game genres category. But we might need to rename "Games by type" to "Games by genre" in turn. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 03:03, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support renaming to Category:Board games by theme and Category:Role-playing games by theme. Perhaps Category:Games by genre should be renamed Category:Games by genre or theme so it encompasses non-electronic game themes, video game themes and video game genres? Mclay1 (talk) 11:36, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Mythology of Perseus

Propose renaming Category:Mythology of Perseus to Category:Perseus

Nominator's rationale: Per the naming of other eponymous categories, such as Category:Heracles and Category:Jason. MClay1 (talk) 01:34, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Though this category is missing articles on Perseus' spouse, his children, the many characters killed by him, and his magical weapons. Dimadick (talk) 06:27, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, there is also Category:Mythology of Heracles. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:54, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, though that is at least a subcategory of his eponymous category. It appears to be a way to diffuse all the miscellaneous mythology articles relating to Heracles. I don't know if that's necessary, but if it is, it's probably only neeeded for prominent characters that are likely to have many connected articles, and so I don't think it would be needed for Perseus. MClay1 (talk) 15:01, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:15, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cities in Kloto (prefecture)

Propose renaming Category:Cities in Kloto (prefecture) to Category:Kloto Prefecture

Nominator's rationale: I think we should rename and reparent this category because there's no Kloto Prefecture category. Mason (talk) 00:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oppose: We can create the category separately ; I just didn't place it in the required pages, but just in my creations, for example, Agomé-Yoh or Missahoé could be in Category:Cities in Kloto (prefecture), whilst Kamalo Falls or Agomé people could be in the larger category of Category:Kloto Prefecture. AgisdeSparte (talk) 07:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please populate the categories you make @AgisdeSparte. Mason (talk) 20:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just delete, the articles are already in Category:Populated places in Plateaux Region, Togo and we do not need categories for second-level administrative divisions per se. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:11, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with deletion for now. Mason (talk) 20:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:07, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:NBC LX Home affiliates

Propose deleting Category:NBC LX Home affiliates (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: No longer available OTA but still streaming; these stations have/will start airing a new diginet, NBC American Crimes (no article yet) Mvcg66b3r (talk) 00:19, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:58, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Kaguya-hime

Propose renaming Category:Kaguya-hime to Category:Works based on The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter

Nominator's rationale: All articles in the category are adaptations. Also the category title should use the current title of the main article. Mika1h (talk) 14:20, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 12:15, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Video games about crime

Propose renaming Category:Video games about crime to Category:Crime video games

Nominator's rationale: This category is now a subcategory of Category:Video games by narrative genre. For the sake of consistency with other subcats in this category, it should be renamed with the subject up front instead of "Video games about...". This also makes it consistent with other medium subcategories listed at Category:Crime fiction (such as Category:Crime films and Category:Crime novels). AHI-3000 (talk) 00:17, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, we have not only Category:Crime fiction but also Category:Fiction about crime. Also Category:Works about crime. I am unsure what to think about it. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:23, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle: I think there should be a discussion about the overlap between the "Crime fiction", "Fiction about crime", and "Works about crime" categories. I think that's kinda redundant, and we only really need one of those categories (I personally prefer "Crime fiction" as the title). AHI-3000 (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, if we rename to "Crime video games" we would have to only include games themed after crime fiction, and exclude games like Cyberpunk 2077, due to what the new title would imply. Its subcategories may also have to be moved, so just keep the original name. Also, please don't also rename "Organized crime video games." QuantumFoam66 (talk) 21:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, House Blaster (talk · he/they) 22:26, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:46, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Imperial Army (Holy Roman Empire) personnel

Propose merging Category:Imperial Army (Holy Roman Empire) personnel to Category:Military personnel of the Holy Roman Empire

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping categories Mason (talk) 23:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support in principle but Category:Imperial Army (Holy Roman Empire) personnel is a much better descriptor than Category:Military personnel of the Holy Roman Empire. There are lots of articles in the latter category that are not about the Imperial Army. So I would rather propose a manual reverse merge. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have tagged the other category
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:40, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Smasongarrison: what do you think of the alternative? Marcocapelle (talk) 14:10, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Games about extraterrestrial life

Propose deleting Category:Games about extraterrestrial life (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Very redundant, unhelpful, and just pointless. firstly, we already have a separate category for video games, in which this category used to also contain video games, until I moved ALL the video games in the category, to its only subcategory "Video games about extraterrestrial life" which I have also removed from this category. So either we delete this category or just merge with "Extralif. in pop. culture". QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@QuantumFoam66: it is really unclear what you are trying to say. What have you exactly done (please use links in your explanation! and perhaps examples) and why do you think this category is redundant? Marcocapelle (talk) 05:44, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really get why you thought I was being unclear, but forget about it, I'm re-phrasing what I just said.

Games about extraterrestrial life is one of the 5 categories on Wikipedia that begin with "Games about". Deleting this one would put the other categories in jeopardy, however MetaZoo isn't a game primarily about Aliens. Leaving us with only 3 articles in this category. Warhammer 40,000, Eclipse Phase, and Incursion. These articles will most likely be moved to Category:Extraterrestrial life in popular culture if you really think that this is necessary.

Oh, and by the way I also nominated Category:Games by genre and 2 other categories for renaming. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 01:56, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Being about aliens is indeed defining, so while the category is somewhat unpopulated, tabletop games are not the same as video games and there is no cogent reason to delete it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, the only thing that intrigued me was the six languages that this category was available in, even though that is not a good reason to be concerned. I'm still the one who removed all the video games from the this category though. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 02:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there is a decent amount of board games, tabletop games, card games, pinball machines, and other games about extraterrestrials that warrant a separate category. (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:26, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Thai anime-influenced Western animated television series

Propose deleting Category:Thai anime-influenced Western animated television series (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Thai anime-influenced Western animated television series. What? Western animated television series, from Thailand and influenced by anime? Well, the two entries didn't mention Western whatsoever so it's an empty category. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 08:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Bro didn't even know Thailand wasn't even a part of the Western World. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 22:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, "Western" is very unusual to categorize by. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yes, this is an empty category. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:41, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Thai anime-influenced animated television series. These are obviously a result of the creator copying the parent cat's title without looking. There are several others still, but the whole issue should have been addressed by upmerging the unnecessary parent layer and removing "Western" from all the categories in the tree. I'll see if I can build a proper nom. Also, User:Soetermans, please do not manually empty such categories as it confuses the CfD participants. --Paul_012 (talk) 16:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have restored this category as well
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Philippine anime-influenced Western animated television series

Propose deleting Category:Philippine anime-influenced Western animated television series (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Empty category, two previous entries failed CATDEF - nothing 'Western' soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 08:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, "Western" is very unusual to categorize by. Marcocapelle (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Another empty category. Consider tagging CSD C1 next time. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The category was manually emptied by the nominator. I'm not familiar with the former members to judge whether the removals were appropriate. If the category is un-emptied, rename to Category:Philippine anime-influenced animated television series, as an obvious naming mistake. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Soetermans, please do not empty out categories, especially if they are involved in a CFD discussion. It renders the discussion rather pointless. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:31, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have restored the category members
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

American citrus farmers

Propose splitting Category:Citrus farmers from California to Category:American citrus farmers and Category:Farmers from California
Propose splitting Category:Citrus farmers from Florida to Category:American citrus farmers and Category:Farmers from Florida

Nominator's rationale: Merge per WP:NARROWCAT. Create new category for American-specific citrus farmers and add that to Category:American orchardists and Category:Citrus farmers. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:48, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Create new category and dual merge per nom. John H. Shary from Texas can also be moved to the new category. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A category with 29 members is hardly a "very narrow category with few members". I would not object to Category:American citrus farmers as a higher cat (looks like it would have 2 subcats and 1 other member), but if you upmerged to that cat each member would need 3 cats to replace 1 (the 2 you propose and Category:Citrus industry in California or Category:Citrus industry in Florida), so more category cluster.--Mhockey (talk) 16:04, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mhockey, I don't follow your objection exactly. This falls under the rules of WP:NARROWCAT. Other than Ranchers (21 C), which are different from farmers who grow produce that they can be considered seperate, there aren't any other produce-specific farmers by state categories other than these two. Omnis Scientia (talk) 16:52, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On what basis would you say that the cats fail WP:NARROWCAT? Parent categories too small for diffusion to be an option? Similar intersections cannot be made for related categories? Why under the rules of WP:NARROWCAT do you think that Ranchers should be split by state but not citrus farmers or any other specialist farmers (e.g. viticulturalists)? Citrus farmers exist in only a small number of states, but the test is whether similar intersections can be made for related categories, not the number of related categories that could be made. Mhockey (talk) 21:16, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, does WP:NARROWCAT not apply here? Just asking if I'm getting it wrong.

@Mhockey, IMO, because those are too small to justify diffusing categories, IMO. Ranchers have 21 state categories. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The American category in total will not be so large that it requires diffusion. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Marcocapelle, that was my understanding too. Thank you. :) Omnis Scientia (talk) 11:34, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Former states and territories of Thuringia

Propose deleting Category:Duchy of Saxe-Altenburg‎ (1 C, 1 P)
Propose deleting Category:Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen‎ (1 C, 1 P)
Propose deleting Category:Principality of Anhalt-Dornburg‎ (1 C, 1 P)
Propose deleting Category:Saxe-Coburg and Gotha‎ (1 C, 2 P)
Propose deleting Category:Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach‎ (2 C, 1 P); move subCategory:Orders, decorations, and medals of Weimar to Category:Ernestine duchies
Propose deleting Category:Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt‎ (1 C, 1 P)
Propose deleting Category:Schwarzburg-Sondershausen‎ (1 C, 2 P)
Propose deleting Category:Principality of Reuss-Gera‎ (1 C, 1 P)
Propose deleting Category:Principality of Reuss-Greiz‎ (2 C, 1 P); move subCategory:Treaties of the Principality of Reuss-Greiz to Category:Imperial County of Reuss

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with one or two history articles and a people subcategory each. I have purged articles about current populated places in Thuringia, as we have discussed multiple times that articles about current places do not belong in history categories. The main articles are already in the tree of Category:Former states and territories of Thuringia, the subcategories are already in Category:People from former German states in Thuringia so a merge is not needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:08, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Nepalese martyrs

Propose merging Category:Nepalese martyrs to Category:Nepalese democracy activists

Nominator's rationale: merge, overlapping categories, "democracy activist" is more NPOV than "martyr". Marcocapelle (talk) 16:27, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Martyrs are not the same as democracy activists. "Martyr" is a technical term here, and a posthumous award of sorts; the government officially designates certain people as martyrs after deliberation. So, NPOV is not an issue. — Usedtobecool ☎️ 17:19, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:29, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:American farmers of Japanese descent

Propose splitting Category:American farmers of Japanese descent to Category:American people of Japanese descent and Category:American farmers

Nominator's rationale: Merge per WP:OCEGRS. Manually merge to appropriate categories in Category:American farmers. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:49, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Manually merge, as a trivial intersection. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:19, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support merge per nom. Mason (talk) 03:30, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep given the history of forced relocation and dispossession of farmland by Americans of Japanese descent, this is definitely not a trivial intersection. It has been covered in numerous sources: Working harder than ever: the last remaining Japanese American farmers The Guardian, [1] sunset.com, Preserving the Legacy of Japanese American Farms in Southern California The New York Times, The Next Generation: Young Japanese American Farmers Strive to Create Community, Honor Legacy Edible Seattle and so on.--User:Namiba 18:17, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Painters by theme

Propose renaming Category:Painters by theme to Category:UNKNOWN

Nominator's rationale: Johnbod suggested at a previous CFD that this one should also be renamed from "theme", perhaps to "Category:Painters by type of subject". Alternatively, Category:Painters by genre would match the linked category on Commons, and fit within Category:Artists by genre. – Fayenatic London 19:36, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Either would be a big improvement - or "Category:Painters by subject" if that is preferred. I rather demur at using "genre" here, because the word is unfortunately ambiguous as it relates to art - genre painting is one particular genre/type of subject, whereas here we are covering a wide range of other genres. But maybe that horse has bolted. For those just joining, in art and art history, "death" and "love" are themes, the Lamentation of Christ is a subject (which has themes as well). Religious painting, or say altarpiece, is a type of subject, hence my suggesting that. Johnbod (talk) 22:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Category:Painters by type of subject per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:18, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Category:Painters by genre; this should be a subcategory of Category:Artists by genre. A genre is a type of subject, after all. I don't think it's a problem that genre painting is the name of one of the genres. Ham II (talk) 10:02, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Rename target?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:26, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Businesspeople in real estate vs. real estate businesspeople

Option A

Propose renaming Category:American real estate businesspeople to Category:American businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Australian real estate businesspeople to Category:Australian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Austrian real estate businesspeople to Category:Austrian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:British real estate businesspeople to Category:British businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Canadian real estate businesspeople to Category:Canadian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Chinese real estate businesspeople to Category:Chinese businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Danish real estate businesspeople to Category:Danish businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Indian real estate businesspeople to Category:Indian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Mexican real estate businesspeople to Category:Mexican businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Nigerian real estate businesspeople to Category:Nigerian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Pakistani real estate businesspeople to Category:Pakistani businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Romanian real estate businesspeople to Category:Romanian businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Singaporean real estate businesspeople to Category:Singaporean businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Taiwanese real estate businesspeople to Category:Taiwanese businesspeople in real estate
Propose renaming Category:Thai real estate businesspeople to Category:Thai businesspeople in real estate

OR Option B

Propose renaming Category:Colombian businesspeople in real estate to Category:Colombian real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Emirati businesspeople in real estate to Category:Emirati real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Filipino businesspeople in real estate to Category:Filipino real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:German businesspeople in real estate to Category:German real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Irish businesspeople in real estate to Category:Irish real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Israeli businesspeople in real estate to Category:Israeli real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Italian businesspeople in real estate to Category:Italian real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Japanese businesspeople in real estate to Category:Japanese real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Kuwaiti businesspeople in real estate to Category:Kuwaiti real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Monegasque businesspeople in real estate to Category:Monegasque real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Norwegian businesspeople in real estate to Category:Norwegian real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Russian businesspeople in real estate to Category:Russian real estate businesspeople
Propose renaming Category:Ugandan businesspeople in real estate to Category:Ugandan real estate businesspeople

Nominator's rationale: Significant inconsistency problem in Category:Businesspeople in real estate by nationality, with about half of the subcategories using "Demonym real estate businesspeople" and the other half using "Demonym businesspeople in real estate". Obviously these should all be named the same way; given that the parent category is Category:Businesspeople in real estate rather than Category:Real estate businesspeople, it should probably be Option A, although I'm proposing both options for discussion to prevent this landing no-consensus if there are people who feel strongly that it should be the other way. (Nearly all aunts and uncles in the Category:Businesspeople by industry grandparent are in the "businesspeople in industry" format rather than the "industry businesspeople" format, for the record.) Bearcat (talk) 20:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Option A with exceptions – The category tree clearly should be consistent, and Option A is the best for consistency and it sounds better. However, it should be noted that real estate is an American term and not all English-speaking countries commonly use it. For example, Category:British real estate businesspeople has the subcategory Category:English businesspeople in property. Maybe Category:British real estate businesspeople (and perhaps similarly for other nationalities that don't use real estate, though I don't know which ones that would be) should move to Category:British businesspeople in property. MClay1 (talk) 02:11, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:25, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Turn-based video games

Propose deleting Category:Turn-based video games (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: I recently removed the only article that was in this category (NOT the subcategories) "Farlanders" and to be honest, gameplay that is turn-based (progressing in turns) is not very defining. We didn't even include "Digital tabletop games in this category for that matter, but there are so many Chess simulators, Turn-based puzzles like Sokoban, Rogue, heck, even many point-and-click adventure games... It's too plain and basic to be defining, I guess. QuantumFoam66 (talk) 22:06, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep IMO, it's defining for the video games within. Journalists commonly use "turn-based" without specifying a genre to describe gameplay systems, such as here and here, which was my basis for creating it, so I fail to see how it's not defining. Obviously though, if other people disagree I am fine with it getting deleted. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zxcvbnm: Can you provide examples of turn-based games that don't fit into the subcategories? If it's a common gameplay element, then I would say it probably is defining. But if pretty much all turn-baed games are strategy or role-playing games, this is a redundant category layer. (I would argue chess is a turn-based strategy game, and point-and-click adventures aren't really based on "turns".) Mclay1 (talk) 15:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – If it is deleted, it should be upmerged. Mclay1 (talk) 15:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkl talk 11:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

German Confederation (dis)establishments

Propose renaming

more establishments and disestablishments categories nominated

Nominator's rationale: rename, there was no unified German country until 1871. The German Confederation (1815-1866) was a loose connection of independent states which also included Austria and Bohemia. Per precedent in Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_July_21#German_Confederation. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@PearlyGigs and Omnis Scientia: pinging contributors to previous discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:28, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom and previous discussion. Omnis Scientia (talk) 13:23, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional government lawyers

Propose deleting Category:Fictional government lawyers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: If Category:Fictional public defenders‎ is merged, which it probably will be given how tiny it is, then this doesn't have anyone who is actually a government lawyer and is just plain misleading. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:38, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do judges and prosecutors not count as government lawyers? This category is supposed to mirror Category:Government lawyers. AHI-3000 (talk) 09:37, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional public defenders

Propose merging Category:Fictional public defenders to Category:Fictional defense attorneys

Nominator's rationale: One article category, recently created. Not seeing the need for it, given that it has not been populated at all after 1.5 years and its parent category is already pretty small. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:22, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Guadeloupean disestablishment categories

Propose merging Category:2003 disestablishments in Guadeloupe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) to Category:2003 disestablishments in France and Category:2003 disestablishments in North America
Propose deleting Category:Disestablishments in Guadeloupe by century (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Disestablishments in Guadeloupe by decade (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Disestablishments in Guadeloupe by millennium (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Disestablishments in Guadeloupe by year (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:3rd-millennium disestablishments in Guadeloupe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:21st-century disestablishments in Guadeloupe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:2000s disestablishments in Guadeloupe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:Disestablishments in Guadeloupe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Another massive (and that might be the understatement of the month) category tree for a single article (Saint Barthélemy) which is unhelpful for navigation. Merge Category:2003 disestablishments in Guadeloupe to Category:2003 disestablishments in France and Category:2003 disestablishments in North America, and delete the rest of the tree. No objection to recreating any of these categories when it can be appropriately populated. House Blaster (talk · he/they) 00:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just delete, in 2003 a referendum took place, nothing was disestablished. In 2007 St Bartholomy was established (not disestablished) as a separate polity. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:38, 4 August 2024 (UTC) Marcocapelle (talk) 06:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]